The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) has confirmed that it is considering format extensions that could enable 4K content playback on Blu-ray. The confirmation was issued in a statement which was sent to CNET.
To enable 4K content playback on Blu-ray, the BDA members will have to agree on new codecs and resolution limits, amongst other things.
A final recommendation on the future of 4K Blu-ray is expected later this year.
Here's the statement the BDA sent to CNET:
"As part of its ongoing responsibility to maintain Blu-ray Disc as the premium platform for watching movies and other content at home, the BDA established a task force last year to study a range of possible format extensions, including those that potentially enable 4K content playback on Blu-ray.
Through the first quarter of this year, the task force solicited and received numerous proposals, and is now evaluating the various technologies.
The task force, which is comprised of representatives from BDA member studios, consumer electronics manufacturers and media technology companies, looks forward to sharing with and receiving input from content creators, and is expected to make specification and technology recommendations to the Blu-ray Disc Association board of directors later this year."
I would be great if they started selling titles on 4K Blu-ray discs with backwards compatibility on 1080p sets/Blu-ray players. It would be convenient for those of us who don't have the money to buy a 4K T.V right away.
@mport5150: I don't believe anyone is looking for or being interested in a "new" format. What makes the most sense is sort of an extension to Blu-ray (and its specs), similar to the way 3D Blu-ray discs are at the moment.
This way you have standard 2D Blu-ray, 3D Blu-ray, and 4K. It is very simple, really. It all stays under Blu-ray's umbrella and essentially cements its status as the ultimate physical format. End of story.
Peter's suggestion above is what seems like the logical solution at the moment
I would hope that these would be on updated blu-ray disc technology that have higher capacity than 50gb 'cuz there are already enough compression issues at 1080... no need to restrict 4k by trying to squeeze it onto a disc that's unsuitable for it.
OK. So we get 4K blu-rays. Reality check! Does anyone have early BD transfers of movies "they couldn't screw up..."
Something like the original release of "Patton" comes to mind.
How much will a disc cost? $59.95+
A player? (and don't even mention something like an Oppo) $450?
Cables from Monoprice? ? $30 each/6ft
And a 4k screen? $20-24,000.00 to watch it on. (Rough paraphrase: a minimum of a 60 inch screen to see the difference)
Hhmmmmm...I'll stick with blu-ray for a LONG time.
It's too early for a format change or an extension.
Even if BDA updates the format to allow 4 layered BDXL, it will still require us to change our players.
But I like the idea. I hope as they are revising the format, they include something to revise the audio formats as well. Perhaps including discrete 9.1 or 11.1 surround, to support the Auro3D format.
Agreed with most of the above posters. All this great, new, envelope pushing technology is awesome to be sure, but who among the majority of ordinary people has an appetite for yet another considerable outlay of $$$ to be able to fully enjoy all this, no doubt, mind-blowing PQ? Backwards compatibility, wherever possible, seems like a no-brainer.
@ pro-bassoonist and PeterTHX, I agree. Blu-ray and the transport mechanism (HDMI) have the capacity to support higher data rates and storage so there is no need for a new format. Blu-ray is still making waves and is still not the No.1 mainstream entertainment format.
But resolution isn't everything, higher colour depth, 4:2:2 encoding, could be utilised to improve PQ, so it will be interesting to see the specs they propose for 4K.
Yes, let's change formats again, and this time, we'll "upgrade" to a new format that will be virtually indistinguishable from the old format on everything under a 92" screen (and even then, the difference will be negligible). Sign me up!
Agree with Peter and Pro-B, people don't generally seem to be miffed about buying 3D players to play 3D blu-ray discs, lets hope with 4K they do both 2D and 3D at the same time to avoid one more player buying opportunity, and of course it goes without saying BC with 3D and 2D 1080p Blu-ray is a must.
As for distinguishing the difference, screen size has nothing to do with it if you're not factoring in viewing distance.
I'm open to a new format that would involve fewer trade-offs to improve video quality. We should be striving for lossless video instead of "better" compression. 4-layer discs and new codecs may be unacceptable compromises. Of course, we should also address one of any format's weak links: old masters. With older movies, we still have DVD masters being used to produce Blu-rays.
The problem is: screen resolution is one thing, physical resolution is another. Typical consumer display sizes can't even fully resolve the amount of detail in 480i dvd; with 1080p, unless you've got a 1080p front projection (FP) setup, you're missing over half the detail that's in the image. That's just the nature of size, though FP does also tend to have a purer optical path with less chromatic and other manipulation going on, in most cases. 1080p still looks absolutely fantastic even in commercial cinema venues, which is about the only place true 4K video is going to be appreciable.
In otherwords, other than improvements in screen resolution (tighter pixel structure) on even larger FP home setups, the only way we'll see any difference between true 4K content and properly upconverted 1080p, at home, outside of much larger commercial venues, is if the 1080p BD was very poorly downconverted from a 4K or higher master - which could be the case; but, if so, it won't be so much a testament to 4K as much as evidence against the current practice of sanitizing BDs for the masses or an indicator that the scaling used for downconversion of higher resolution masters to 1080p is as seriously flawed as that used for downconverting 1080p to 480i dvd was.
Could they make 4k players that could down convert a 4k BD and display it at 1080p that seems to probably be the best way to go I think, but this is a business they want to make money so they probably wouldn't do that.
just got news that Sony will release a entry 4K projector this september for just below 10.000 euro!
surprisingly still no news from Epson,and i certainly expect news about that within a month from now,progress etc...i can hardly believe Epson,JVC,Panasonic and some more are gonna let Sony get yet another 4K projector on the market alone!
it is in our interest that more join the 4K market,i for one cant wait for 4K,bring it on plz.
it would allow a bigger screen as i have now (90") and keep the same viewing distance!
my current viewing angle is 33,2°,but with 4K one can go even much wider.
Someone who gets excited about a 10,000 euro device must have money to burn. Most of us don't.
Seriously I find the conversation here very interesting. Are you not aware that even HD has not yet caught on? Yes I know there are tons of HD capable sets out there but surveys have revealed that many viewers do not use them to watch HD programming and are quite satistified with standard definition. They argue that that they can't see any difference. Introducing a new TV format at this time (the economy in North America and Europe) is plain foolish. Aside from the techies and geeks few are going to be able to buy into 4K/Ultra HD. As for introducng a new BD format I do have to ask how many times are we willing to buy the same movie just because it looks better. I've reached my limit with 1080P. It offers as close to a perfect picture as I could ever want. 4K I'm sure would be an improvement but as someone pointed out to me a new format does nothing to change/improve the content. The hero still gets the girl, the villain still gets killed. The family still finds their missing dog. etc. etc. There's a law of diminishing returns and I suspect that 4K will never be more than niche market as Beta, Laserdisc and BD all are.
reidw...the HD market is still growing,and it is so slowly...
true about the economy...hence introducing 4K at 10.000 euro...wich is still a lot of money,for me aswell!
but i also think back when one would pay over 100.000 euro for a 1080P projector with 9" lenses!
i'm a factory worker and my annual income is just over what is considerate low,so no i dont have money to burn...but i'm willing to save up for it.
i mean,1080P is available now verry cheaply,just look at silly low priced blu ray players,LED tv's,one couldn't even dream of prices like that 5 years ago.
4K will be the high end of home cinema,1080P will be mass market for a long time,it all depends on what is your need?
are you into home cinema or not,cause 4K on annything less then a 80" screen is silly tbh...and no point whatsoever to get new gear just for "regular" TV viewing.
4K will get a boost once they release native 4K discs,cause then people will actually see the true difference,like i did during a 4K viewing on a 110" screen sitting barely 9 feet away and it was "jawdropping",no strain on the eyes at all,and a totally immersive experience.
i then saw Titanic upscaled to 4K on the Sony and again it was just a dream,it must have a really good chip to do that,in the past this was done by faroudhja,processors costing easily 25.000 euro and more.
dont get me wrong here,i am happy with 1080P but when 4K comes and its "affordable" ill go for it,home cinema is my hobby...
Could they make 4k players that could down convert a 4k BD and display it at 1080p that seems to probably be the best way to go I think, but this is a business they want to make money so they probably wouldn't do that.
I believe if 4K Blu ray players were implemented they could down convert to 1080p because you can select video output on current Blu ray players PS3's included down to 480i.
I am still on 720p 32" screen. I am well aware I am not getting full benefit of blu ray yet, not just quite ready to spend nearly 1,500.00 for a tv set. Of all my experience of seeing 1080p content is stores (based upon Magnolia set ups, not Walmart to Target) you need a 42" minimum screen to see the difference from an 8 foot difference, I would not get one under 55" for 1080p. For 4K, I would not go lower than 75". I hypothesize that 4K would be best viewed on a screen of 80" or more, 75" is like a D+, anything less is pointless. And standard definition content would be useless, full of distortion and pixelation on an 80" screen. Plasma would be the best best, LED struggles with above 50", unless you get a 3D TV with 240 Hz refresh. Imagine the cost of a 80" LED TV w/ 240Hz. Cost of a plasma 80" wont be much lower. Cost of technology will reduce, but when you get to 80" that's a lot of perfect pane glass and material built in. The size of a blu ray disc will need to be 2.5x current capacity. Can't wait to see those load time, they could give players 4GB RAM and i7 processor, there is still loads of info the player needs to read through. So an 80" screen, new player, bigger capacity disks. If I go 4K, I'm getting a projector where I can easily move the screen. An 80" 4K TV is ridiculous. I don't need to see the news is 4K, it's bad enough already.
Im surprised they are close to a decision. It makes me hopeful that 4k Blu-Rays can be avalible as soon as 2015. I agree that BD XLs with HEVC compression could deliever 4k at similar playback times that current Blu-Rays offer at an economical cost. Hopefully support for higher frame rates and 3D will be included as well. Also hoping that similar to Blu-Rays that so frequently have DVDs attatched that 4k discs will have a regular 1080p Blu-Ray attached as well so that those without 4k players and televisions can buy new titles play them in 1080p now and have a sizable collection by the time we can afford 4k equitment. I already had over a dozen 3D Blu-Rays before buying a 3DTV so Im hoping the same here
I know 4K is just in the planning stage right now but hopefully studios get a handle on 4K transfers before they start releasing them. I hope it isn't like the early days of Blu ray where studios authored movies like The House of Flying Daggers or The Fifth Element on 25 gig disks with MPEG 2 compression where the video was bad.
Fair enough, but if you think about it, that isn't really that fair a comparison. After all, think about it - without 4k content, why would you buy a 4k TV/projector? If in your example the horse is a 4k TV and the card is 4k Blu-ray discs (or an equivalent), then it's like reidw was getting at - some people would buy a horse and get a cart to work with it, while others would get the cart that they want (in this case whatever movie(s) make you make the switch) and buy a horse to make that cart work.
ANOTHER format change?! I thought Bluray was "the ultimate viewing experience!"
There's got to be a way to stop these studios from selling the same product over and over again.
It was only a matter of time, I suppose. It's almost time to shut down, Bluray.com...make way for another B.S. format.
@Any responding about 50" displays in 4K. My understanding is: Why bother? Unless you sit almost on top of your video display you would never notice the difference.
My understanding is you need ay LEAST a 65" display. OK, Sony has a display for $1,500. What are the features, or is it just a basic display?
The LG 84" *IS* 20k.
I haven't even seen a Panasonic unit out yet (and I'm not surprised)
There's a nice article here: Why Ultra HD 4K TVs are still stupid - Cnet, January 28, 2013 :
Well, makes sense. DVDs had a good decade, and 1080p blu-ray will be about a decade old in 3 years. Time to put about 3/4 of my collection on eBay (older blu-rays are about $5-10 now, won't get $2 in 3 years) and keep the obscure stuff.
Yes they require large TVs to get the difference but so what? There was a time when 25 inches was considered a big screen and on a 25 inch screen the difference between a Blu-Ray and an upconverted DVD is quite minor. But on a 50 inch display its huge. TVs are getting bigger and resolution should keep pace with that. For 80 or 100 inch TVs 4k certainly does make a noticable difference and I welcome the improvement
So if someone is in the market for a TV or player what advice do we give them? Buy now? Wait a couple years? Wait a few years? Electronics we buy today are outdated tomorrow but we want them to be viable for as long as possible.
If they decide to go with H265 standard on a BD50 (probably excluding any forms of bonuses, but keeping good amount of space for audio & video), then the PS4 would potentially be upgraded to a 4K playerI think. Heck, if they can make the H265 decompression and bandwidth work with the Cell and the PS3 graphic card, the PS3 could be upgraded to 4K playback, just not sure how much processing power it would suck out of it.
Elandyll....why would you use a PS3 or PS4 as a transport to your display for viewing 4K material?
it will never be as good example a Oppo or anny other brand with top of the line video chips dedicated to movie material,and i honestly dont see a PS4 to be cheaper then a Oppo,not for a long time...
i guess you just want a "good" movieplayer and gamestation in one box,that way i understand.
@JoeGillis - those aren't 4K discs. They are movies remastered in 4K and compressed to 1080p."Lawrence of Arabia" and "Taxi Driver" (remastered in 4k and compressed to 1080p) have already been available. You would have to have more than 50gb on a disc to have true uncompressed 4K . That's fine if they want 4K discs, but its a niche market. Its great for people with projectors or T.V.s over 70". But the average person doesn't have these things. So not much use to most of us. I would just be happy if most studios would release good 1080p transfers on 50gb discs. But most are half-ass transfers that don't fully utilize the quality of 1080p. So why would I jump on another format that will probably be just as hit and miss in quality.
Technology is a great thing. But in terms of home video, we've already crossed the law of diminishing returns with Blu-ray. 1080p is already a huge resolution for average Joe (myself included) with an average apartment and a decent screen. In order to appreciate the microscopic details (if any) of a 4K transfer, you need a home cinema screen the size of a small theater (at least three meters). Is this realistic? No, and the BDA perfectly knows it. Especially in a market where VOD is still largely stuck at 480p. A new codec like H265 will be more useful for enhancing compression of long movies and TV series on current discs.
Pcperspective bought a50inch4K tv for 1200$ on amazon for lols and to see what kind of performance you could get out of it with 4k gaming and he was impressed with it even though it cheaply manufactured Taiwan version. Jvc has a 4k projector for 4999$ which has some respectively nice specs so 4K is soon its way !
4K e-shift2 smashes through the high definition barrier, taking two-million pixel 1080p HD images, and up converting them to eight-million pixel 4K images. That’s four times the resolution of Full HD!
The DLA-X55R is a truly breakthrough product, bring 4K e-shift2 to JVC’s most exciting price point ever. 4K e-shift2 delivers an image with significantly improved detail & contrast. In addition, visible pixel structure is also almost completely eliminated.
The X55R also benefits from JVC’s renowned performance in other areas: the deepest black levels, and an impressive 50,000:1 native contrast—the type of performance which only D-ILA technology can deliver. “Native” means JVC does not use a dynamic iris, making it possible to reproduce the deepest blacks and vivid peak whites at the same time, for the most impactful images in each and every frame.
All new JVC Procision projectors are 3D enabled, and feature a wide range of 3D enhancements, including a brighter 3D picture and reduced 3D cross talk.
A 3D RF Emitter (PK-EM2, sold separately) syncs the projected image with JVC’s Active Shutter 3D RF Glasses (PK-AG3, sold separately) for a superior 3D experience, no matter what type of screen is used or how the home theater has been configured. By using RF technology, installation is simplified, and the available viewing range is increased substantially.
JVC offers impressive installation flexibility with a 2X Optical Zoom featuring motorized focus, zoom & lens shift settings. The X55R offers a Lens Memory function with five memories that allow those settings to be stored for different picture formats. This makes it easy to view multiple picture formats, such as 16:9 HDTV and Cinemascope movies, at a constant image height on a cinemascope screen, without any annoying black bars.
7 axis color management and a high precision pixel alignment system make it possible to calibrate the X55R to the most exacting standards.
The Competitive Advantage
Improved 4K e-shift2 for upconverted 3,840 x 2,160 precision
New 8 Band Detection 2K to 4K scalingNew MPC Control with 5 selectable 4K profiles1,920 x 1,080 content is up-converted to 3,840 x 2,160 (2D Mode Only)Reduces or eliminates anti-aliasing and stair-steppingImproves edge transition and enhances contrast in detail areasAllows for closer viewing with no visible picture structureHighest NATIVE Contrast Ratio in class (50,000:1)
Provides deepest blacks and vivid peak whites at the same timeDoes not use a dynamic iris100% "Frame Addressing" provides brighter image reproduction in 3D2 year warranty
New Illumination System: 230W NSH lamp & new power supply
Up to 4,000 hour lamp life/low lamp mode4th Generation Wire Grid Optical Engine minimizes light leakage 3 Mode Screen Adjustment 7 Axis Color ManagementHigh Precision Pixel Alignment System
Enables adjustment down to 1/16th pixelAdjustable on 121 points on the screenNew Pincushion Control120Hz Clear Motion Drive23dB ultra low noise design (normal lamp mode)1,200 lumens
Upgraded Cross Talk Cancelation Circuit 2D to 3D Converter
Developed from JVC's experience in broadcast 3D conversion systemsAllows 2D content to be converted to 3D in real timeWorks on broadcast as well as packaged mediaExtensive 3D Input supported though HDMI
Frame Sequential: 1080 24p/50i/60iFrame Sequential: 720 50p/60p Side by Side: 1080 24p/50p/50i/60p/60iSide by Side: 720 50p/60pTop and Bottom: 1080 24pTop and Bottom: 720 50p/60pDirect access to 3D modes from remote controlNo special screen needed for 3D playbackNew 3D RF Glasses and RF Emitter (Optional)
New RF Glasses: PK-AG3G (Optional) New RF Emitter: PK-EM2G (Optional) The DLA-X55 can also be used with the previous generation JVC IR Emitter & Glasses, (PK-EM1, PK-AG1, PK-AG2) although it is not possible to mix RF & IR accessories.
Convenience and Set-Up Features
Wide Lens Shift functionality (V: 80%, H: 34%)2X Zoom (1.4 to 2.8 throw ratio)Improved 5 Position Lens Memory for easy Cinemascope and 16:9 HDTV setup Motorized Focus, Zoom & Lens ShiftNew iOS App: Full remote control of the projector via iPhone, iPad
or iPod Touch
Inputs & Outputs
Dual 3D enabled HDMI v1.4a input with Deep Color and CECComponent VideoRS-232CRJ45 LAN Connection12V TriggerWired Remote Input
tiger direct has a Seiki 50inch led 4k tv for 1499.99 on there website , 1299.99 if you buy at one of their stores so those looking for a cheaper alternative they have it. personally im happy with my 50inch Samsung DLP I got on craigslist for 100.00 , it needed a color wheel for 83.00 and picture is bad ass for my 360 (60gb jasper w/black controller paid only 40.00 craigslist , blu-ray ( lg -walmart 38.00 on black friday ) dishnetwork (211k hd owned receiver) , and wii u.
Unless I hit the lotto or get some major cash quick im perfectly happy and thankful 4 the things that I have.
To mrjackolanterns and everyone else trying to sell us the 4K:
You're fancy talking isn't going to sway me! I'm DONE buying new formats! BD is the best bang for my buck and I think that myself and the average joe aren't going to notice much of a difference. A new format is only going to confuse and deter most people since it wasn't too long ago that DVD bumped up to BD. I wasn't a fan of BDs at first, for that very reason but now this is getting ridiculous!