We reported early this week that the recently-approved final AACS license included Managed Copy, enabling consumers to make one copy of any Blu-ray Disc they buy. Now additional details on the acquisition procedure and on the actual rollout of this feature have arisen. Soon, the vast majority of BDs will support Managed Copy, but studios will be able to charge for it, and new players will be needed (update: except possibly the PS3).
Video entertainment site Video Business has contacted the chairperson of the AACS Licensing Authority, Michael Ayers, who confirmed that virtually all Blu-ray discs released after the first quarter of 2010 will offer consumers the ability to make one full-resolution backup copy. There are some exceptions where the studio won't be required to offer Managed Copy, such as for small distributors and when the content owner may not have all the necessary rights to allow copying.
Content owners will be in tight control of the backups made, and will be free to charge for the copy.
Managed copies are possible on to various media: burned to writeable BDs or DVDs, downloaded on a Windows Media DRM-compatible portable player, hard drive or memory card, or as a bound copy, such as a digital copy file on the disc. Surprisingly, the AACS-LA has not received a submission from Apple to make Blu-ray copies to Apple devices, and thus downloads to iPods, iPhones and other Apple devices are not approved at this time.
When managed copy is operational, the disc menu on the BD will include an option to make a managed copy, or the consumer will access copy through the player controls. Then, the player will connect online to an authorization center (run by a studio, supplier or the AACS-LA), which will give the go-ahead to make a copy. Discs are serialized, so that the authorization centers can tell whether a copy has already been made off a given disc.
Most existing BD players and devices don't support Managed Copy, so in all likelihood a new player will be needed. A notable exception is the PS3: back in April 2008, Sony engineers claimed that, once Managed Copy was adopted, it would be possible to add the feature to the console via a firmware upgrade.
Hardware manufacturers aren't expected to get new players out until the first or second quarter of 2010 at the very earliest. Managed Copy support won't become a requirement in the Blu-ray specification, so it is up to the individual manufacturers to include it in their players or not. And if they do, they will have to add additional content protections, safeguarding copies from piracy.
Ayers said he expects hardware manufacturers will add Managed Copy because it's something consumers have indicated they want. “We think that consumers really do want the ability to use their content flexibly,” he said.
Andy Parsons, U.S. chairman of the BDA Promotions Committee and senior VP of product planning at Pioneer Home Entertainment, agreed. “There's enough interest in the consumer community that there should be enough incentive in the hardware community to do this,” he said.
Parsons said he hasn't heard of any hardware manufacturers including managed copy features in players on the market now or those that have been announced. It's unlikely that the feature could be added to players already on the market. “It doesn't seem likely as a firmware upgrade because the specs weren't done,” he said. “Hardware guys don't like building stuff that might not be done.”
June 14 update: information added regarding PS3 and Managed Copy.
This is good news, but I am not interest in making copies. I guess for those that have a bank of several 2TB hard drives on a home network it would be neat to access every BLU-RAY disc from anywhere in the house. As long as the managed copy is a perfect bit for bit copy maybe one day I will get a server that does 20TB's and network all the BLU-RAY players in the house to the server.
And can we get the basics down before adding more stuff to the pot please? There are companies still making "New" players that are only Bonus View and not BD-Live capable so I have to explain that difference to people when they ask about Blu-ray, now this. C'mon.
Some people think the time to buy a Blu Ray player is ... later, once it's settled. This kind of non-sense only makes that thinking true. If that's what they want they are going to kill the format. Some people never understood aspect ratios on DVD yet for Blu Ray they have to consider digital copies, managed copies, BD Live, and a never ending attempt to tack on that feature that will appease everyone.
I cannot for the life of me imagine that the PS3 won't be upgradeable to be able to perform managed copy. It has a HDD, it has fully configurable firmware, it has the processing power to re-encode video & audio and it has the capability to interface to external devices.
Ah, if you can't beat them... might as well cater to their needs aproach. Piracy and copying, whether you'd like to ackowlege it or not, has been going on for quite some time now... bit for bit copies as well. Now, it's not against the rules using their method.
All this is, is another selling gimmick to get more people on board with blu-ray that haven't made the transition. If this doesn't interest you, or if you are unsure how things work... just as someone, there are plenty of people who know how things work.
and just MORE fodder for the anti-Blu groups.... a new player will be needed? What kind of cracked up BS is this? The Anti-Blu squads will pick up on this within HOURS today and it will get ugly. The BDA might have been better served by just forgetting managed copy completely compared to the PR this is going to bring. Copying Blu discs isn't exactly rocket science by now anyway... this is just their way to try to get more $$$ in their pocket. I spend $22 or more to buy the disc and now the publishers get to rape me for more $$ to make a copy of a disc I have legal "fair use" rights to make in the first place?
I think this is pointless. Why would you want a back up of a movie. Why would you want a copy of any movie. Isn't that the same as digital copy. only wihtout the hard media? I don't know I don't think this will be a big consumer item at all.
Well, as long as you only need a new player to use this feature and the disc can otherwise be played normally on existing players, I guess this is ok.
It still seems kind of pointless though. It's sort of like Digital Copies now. They sound like a good idea, but generally speaking, they are more of a hassle than people want to deal with. The code expires to activate them if you don't use it right away... if your data gets corrupted or you get a new computer, you are out of luck... there isn't one consistent standard as to what devices these copies will work with across all studios (i.e. not all support playback on an Ipod or a PSP).
I just get this feeling that this "managed copy" non sense is going to be another things with varying options and standards from one studio to another with varying types of DRM that will allow you to do some things with movies from certain studios, but not do all of those same things with movies from others.
Plus, let's face facts. Even with how big hard drive sizes are getting these days, if most movies start coming with this feature, it's not going to be practical to back up every movie that one buys, particularly for big collectors, on their computer. It will fill up way to fast.
So, the only real viable option (at least in the forseeable future) would be to back it up to a blank Blu-Ray disc. But if that's the case, rather than even going through the hassle of creating this whole new type of technology, with all this complicated authroization processes, etc, why not just include to copies of the movie in the same package? Its much less of a hassle by comparison as far as I can tell.
I just hope this doesn't jack up the up front cost for the Blu-Ray, itself. If it does, then this will be really annoying.
And even if there is no price increase, let's face facts. Sooner or later someone is going to figure out how to make back-up copies on their own terms, just like many people can do with DVD now. It may not be official or technically legal, but from an ethical standpoint, if they are just making back up copies for their own personal use, then it's really not harming anything, and those who don't want to go through a bunch of hassle will find the easiest way to do this, regardless of whether or not the studios approve.
Sounds like another way to keep new players at $399.99 and up MSRP. On the other hand, if people want to make back up copies of there BD's, this is a good thing for studios to do. It will deter hacking and reverse engineering of AACS/BD+ because there will be no need for legit customers to use software to break the security on there discs to make the copies of there expensive movie purchases.
Aren't people making their own copies right now ?
Plus I'm sure there are br rips out there already.
I'd actually just prefer a dvd copy if I really really really really need a second copy at no extra charge.
One company is doing this at least right now , at least with a few of their newer releases MGM
I predict people will buy movies, make their one copy, and sell the original with artwork to re-sale shops and Amazon Marketplace etc..... meaning lower prices on used movies..... nothing wrong with that.
i've always backed up my DVD/PS1/PS2/PC games collection, it's saved me hundreds of dollars over the years by having the 10˘ copies get damaged/worn instead of the $20-50 originals. that is the point of backups: to keep the originals in mint condition.
even with BD's scratch resistant coating it won't last forever and accidents do happen, i intend on backing up every BD as soon as it's economical.
seems the studios want to put my legal right to backup my own media on a very very short leash. so what happens when my first backup eventually breaks and i want to legally make another? the studios won't allow me to?
i guess i'll just make my legal backups the way i've always done: exactly how the studios don't want me to.
So does this mean since i own a PS3 that I have to by a Blu ray player next year when the new models come out that support Managed copy? This is kinda confusing. Because I could care less about it. I just want to be able to watch a movie.
My understanding is that you will not be able to backup a backup unless the content provider allows for that. IMHO, chances are best that most content providers will flag their discs as "copy once". Chances are that if you want to backup the backup, you will have to find some other way.
Since my wife and I are the only ones to handle our discs, I do not see this a being of much use. However, if it gives hardware manufacturers more incentive to release stand-alone BR recorders in the US than the already pent-up demand, I am in favor of it.
Personally (being among the wait to adopt group), I think the BR industry is shooting itself in the foot in the US with its refusal to release stand-alone BR recorders, and this "managed copy" garbage may be too little, too late. There was a recent announcement of a near production ready optical disc that has a storage capacity of in excess of 10x Blu-ray. Unfortunately, we may be less than 5-years from the next generation technology, and then BR will be moot. IMHO, the industry is too concerned about rights management, and, as a result, they really are shooting themselves in the foot. My apologies for not being bright and cheerful, but I really think the industry has a serious problem here.
The BD society needs to just stop tinkering with stuff. By continuing to "enhance" the BD experience with new features (useless), they are just alienating existing owners and confusing potential buyers. The launch of Blu-ray was rocky enough with soft requirements on audio support, and late arrival of BD Live (useless).
Set the BD standard and live with it already! Enough is enough!
The wording "New player required" is a little misleading. Seems like people think they need it just the play the BBs. How many people are actually going to use this feature? I would like to use this on my media center PC exept with 3.5TB of hard drive space it would fill up way to quick. So it's going to be a while before I see it being practical use for this.
I said it before and I'm saying it again, Blu-ray is the first format to compete with itself. Instead of increasing the market by perfecting and simplifying the performance of existing platforms; they are adding new platforms. They should standardize with the Studios and devise a semi-automatic update system like many home computers have. That's needed. An electric 'swiss army knife whiz-bang gadget' can wait. A confused public will also keep waiting when they could be going blu.
There is no way I will buy another player just because they want include this feature . If it will still play on my current player just not have that feature that's cool . This is not going to deter piracy at all , they still plan to charge for it LMAO !!! pointless .
edit: Just saw this in the above article . So I have no problem with this for now .
quote: Managed Copy support won't become a requirement in the Blu-ray specification, so it is up to the individual manufacturers to include it in their players or not. And if they do, they will have to add additional content protections, safeguarding copies from piracy.
Why would i even want a copy from the movie i own. It does not make sense at all to even include this feature. And if one of our blu rays break or get scratched i just buy the movie again it is that simple no need to make a freakin copy this is the worst idea i have heard in a while i wonder who the hell comes up with this nonsense
I just read through two full pages of comments on this post and I don't believe I saw anyone that wants to buy this new player/feature. Based on what I have read you will basically be able to use your existing BD player to watch movies, but it won't allow you to make the new bit-for-bit copy. Does anyone really care about this feature? Everyone that said we are confusing those that want to go Blu is correct.
I was a late adopter of Blu-ray because of issues like this. I waited until the HD DVD/Blu-ray war was over. When there was a clear, undisputed winner I did all the research and bought a PS3. I bought the PS3 because all of the critics said it was "future proof" or "forward compatible". "Don't worry about the new features, PS3 is the answer". So, one can only hope that continues to be the case. If not, I certainly won't be going to buy a new player to pay for a copy of the movie I just bought.
Someone mentioned wanting to see the stats they are using that suggest Blu-ray supporters want this feature. I would also like to see those stats, because I refuse to believe a massive number of Blu-ray enthusiasts want this feature. Don't get me wrong, I love my Blu-ray movies. I have bought 133 since the end of June 2008. I want to continue buying Blu-ray movies and for Blu-ray to continue to expand storage capabilities. The BDA Promotions Committee has to see that the general public doesn't understand any of this. My family and my extended family all still have VCR's for goodness sakes. My family doesn't even know to pick up the Widescreen version of the DVD when they buy one. They continue to buy movies for our daughter in FULL SCREEN. I keep telling them to look for Widescreen and the response is, "what's the difference". Yet someone thinks it is a good idea to add this copy feature which will raise the cost of new BD players and confuse people even more. Wow...I just don't get it.
I agree, this better not affect normal play back of blu-ray disc's!!!! I for one do not like viewing hi-def films on any thing other than my HDTV! Personally I find "Digital Copy Disc's" a waste. selling a blu-ray with a free DVD Version is ok if that's what the studio want's to do.
Heck No to "BD Managed Copy" IMHO. Just Keep making Hi-Def blu-ray's of Catalog Titles.. Please.
? Have people here been living in caves? I just bought a laptop with BD-burner more than a year ago and it works for me. I have been making BD copies for quite some time now (with my laptop) for less than $3 per new BD25 disc. Now I only use and damage the copies (only a couple so far, luckily). Before you ask, yes, where I live I am alowed to make a back-up for own use by law and, no, I don't upload them anywhere.
Not a single person here has made this connection, which I am very surprised about. The first thing I thought when I saw that headline was: Finally Media servers will be able to import Blu-rays! We've had clients ask about that now, and how I am supposed to tell them that the Kaleidescape system that they paid$50K+ for can't incorporate the newest format?
Is there nobody on this site that uses a media server? Personally I can't wait until I can store my blu-rays on a hard drive array and browse them on my TV without having to get up, like I already do with my DVDs.
No, believe it has more to do with actually HAVING a hard drive to back up those backups to--
Which already exists in some form on the PS3, with their new "Backup to PSP" feature on downloaded movies.
Don't think it's going to replace Digital Copies (the desire to kissup to the iPod/Phone kids is much too strong for studios to turn down, and they still don't want to deal with Cheapo Steve's one-set prices)--But seems more like an issue that hacker-kids kept whining about as a "legal issue", and the industry wanted to give them their bottle.
This is getting ridiculous. Okay I went with blu-ray for the high quality audio and video. Then they go with this digital copy nonsense with inferior video and I assume audio quality. Now we get a disc we can copy only once. Now if something happens to my original copy and my backup I'm screwed anyway and have to buy it all over again. Digital copies are only good until their expiration date. For God's sake just give me the movie with all the extras and everything on one disc. Wasn't this the purpose of it all? I'm to the point that I'll just purchase a few of those cd/dvd/blu-ray book holders and trash all the useless digital copy stuff and just have the one disc with the movie on it. It is getting too discombobulated and was supposed to be simple a movie on one disc with all the extras.
After additional thought process on this, maybe Obama can order faster internet service so we can
download true high definition movies to a hard drive built into out televisions that can hold 50,000GB
and I won't have to buy any discs anymore. Heck, how about we just buy the movies direct from the
studio the day the movie is release and I can just download the new film release the day of the
theatrical release after I download it to my 50,000GB hdtv. No cellular phones going off, no kids
talking, no adults talking, no crinkling of candy wrappers OMG I have discovered the future of high
definition entertainment maybe Obama will make me the HD Movie Czar!
+1 Phantompwr- Ever since ive gotten my PS3 HDD upgraded a couple years ago, I loathe looking through physical discs to watch a movie. Between my 500gb PS3 and my 3TB PC I put all my movies into a box and tossed them in a closet.
Wait I have to buy a new player then buy the rights to get a second copy? The only reason I personally would like a 2nd copy is incase something happenes to my original. But it still sounds cheaper to just buy a used 2nd copy later on IF I have to.
Not to mention if its not in a blu ray case with original artwork it holds NO value to me. I need to be able to sell/trade or keep it to value it. I take pride in my collection. What am i going to do point to a computer and boast I have 1000+ movies right there? LOL I dont think so. Im also not THAT lazy I cant get up to change a disk out LOL.
>The first thing I thought when I saw that headline was: Finally Media servers will be able to import Blu-rays!
I thought the exact same thing. Currently I'm using my PS3 to play both media files from its internal HDD, as well as blu-rays. I much prefer the superior quality that blu-rays offer, but there's no denying the fact that playing media files from the internal HDD is much more convenient. Swapping discs, especially when watching some show in one go can be a little tedious.
I sure would love to copy a show like True Blood or Band of Brothers (both have only two eps per disc) to an HDD connected to my PS3 before watching.
What I do fear is a couple of things:
1) Although I fully understand the necessity to contact a server of some vendor, what happens when that vendor goes out of business? Does the AACS have a backup plan to support requests for copies on behalf of vendors that do not longer exist?
2) I hope Europeans, Ausies, etc will not be treated as second class citizens. My fear is that the vendor will 'suddenly' realize people in region B are watching American (region free) blu-rays and deny them service since they're not American, even though the region code allows us to watch the blu-ray in question.